《論語》 "[The] Analects"
Chapter 3. 〈八佾〉 '[With] Eight Dancer-Rows'

(Incomplete; work in progress.)

Translation

The Chinese source text is from Chinese Text Project (Ba Yi), but with olden-style punctuation.
Useful commentaries: 論語注疏, 論語集注, Legge

Source text Target text Notes
〈八佾第三〉 '[With] Eight Dancer-Rows, [the] Third'
  • 八佾: [with] eight dancer-rows

    Each chapter of the Analects is named after its incipit (like the books of the Pentateuch in Hebrew).

    The section headings below, on the other hand, are not part of the original text.

3.1. Impropriety by unpermitted dancer count

Source text Target text Notes
孔子謂季氏、八佾舞於庭、是可忍也、孰不可忍也。 Confucius speaketh of [him of] clan Kee, [that], [with] eight dancer-rows dancing in [the] courtyard: [if] this can [be] tolerated, what cannot [be] tolerated?
  • 佾: dancer-rows

    佾、音逸、 Cantonese: yat9, Mandarin: yì

    The commentaries explain that the clan of Kee did not have high enough status to have eight dancer-rows:

    Status Permitted dancer-rows
    天子 "Son of Heaven" 8
    諸侯 "All [the] marquesses" 6
    大夫 "Great Men" 4
    "Scholars" 2

    The clan of Kee were but 大夫 "great men", hence this was a violation of the rules of propriety (or rites).

3.2. Impropriety by unpermitted music

Source text Target text Notes
三家者以雍徹。 [The] Three Families removed [after sacrifice] by [the ode of] Yung.
  • 三家: [the] Three Families

    The families Mêng‑sun, Shuk‑sun, and Kee‑sun, which were 大夫 "great men" of Lu.

  • 徹: removed; or withdrew
  • 雍: [the ode of] Yung

    An ode for clearing out the sacrifice, to be used only for the 天子 "Son of Heaven". Confucius quotes a line (相維辟公、天子穆穆) from it below; see ctext.org 《雝》.

子曰、相維辟公、天子穆穆、奚取於三家之堂。 [And the] Master saith, Assisting [be the] monarch's lords, [and the] Son of Heaven majestic: how take [we this] unto [the] halls of [the] Three Families?
  • 相: assisting; or ministering

    相、去聲、 Cantonese: sœng3, Mandarin: xiàng

3.3. Virtuous humanity necessary for propriety and music

Source text Target text Notes
子曰、人而不仁、如禮何、人而不仁、如樂何。 [The] Master saith, [A] man [being] not of [virtuous] humanity, how [then] of propriety? [a] man [being] not of [virtuous] humanity, how [then] of music?

3.4. On how rites ought to be conducted

Source text Target text Notes
林放問禮之本。 Lim Fang asked of [the] base of rites.
  • 林放: Lim Fang

    A man of Lu.

  • 禮: rites; or propiety
子曰、大哉問。禮、與其奢也、寧儉、喪、與其易也、寧戚。 [And the] Master saith, Great [be thy] question! Rites, with them extravagant, rather [them] frugal; funerals, with them [being] of easiness, rather [them] mournful.
  • 問: question; or asking

3.5. Confucian prejudice against the barbarians

Source text Target text Notes
子曰、夷狄之有君、不如諸夏之亡也。 [The] Master saith, [The] Eastern-Barbarians' [and the] Northern-Barbarians' having monarchs, [is] not as all Hia's having [them] not.
  • 不如: not as

    There are those who prefer to interpret 3.5 not as a prejudicial statement of centric superiority, but as a lament of the lack of order in the Chinese states at that time (by taking "not as" to mean not like, rather than not as good as).

    Those of this view range, from some of the olden commentators, through to the modern-day nationalist who is offended by any evidence against the state-approved myth of an homogeneous and unified China since antiquity that has been non-belligerent, non-hegemonist, and nice to minorities, even to this day.

    In my opinion, the prejudicial interpretation of 3.5 is the correct one, because the construct X 不如 Y is used to express the assertion that X is worse than Y.

    Among the olden commentaries:

    • 《論語注疏》 "Analects annotations [and] subcommentary" supports the prejudicial reading:
      Source text Target text Notes
      注。包曰、諸夏、中國。亡、無也。 Annotation. Pao saith: all Hia, [is] China. Having-not, [meaneth] without.
      • 中國: China; lit. Central Nation
      • 亡: having-not

        The purpose of the annotation 亡、無也 is to explain that means (and is used for) "having not".

      疏。正義曰、此章言中國禮義之盛、而夷狄無也。舉夷狄、則戎蠻可知。諸夏、中國也、亡、無也、言夷狄、雖有君長、而無禮義、中國、雖偶無君、若周召共和之年、而禮義不廢。故曰夷狄之有君、不如諸夏之亡也。注。包曰、諸夏、中國。 Subcommentary. [The] Right Meaning saith: this section speaketh of [the] flourishing of China's propriety [and] righteousness, with [the] Eastern-Barbarians [and the] Northern-Barbarians having [them] not. Raising [the] Eastern-Barbarians [and the] Northern-Barbarians, [the] Western-Barbarians [and the] Southern-Barbarians [one] can know [to be the same]. All Hia, [meaneth] China, [and] having-not, [meaneth] without, [do] speak [that the] Eastern-Barbarians [and the] Northern-Barbarians, although having monarch [and] leader, yet have not propriety [and] righteousness; [and that] China, although perchance without monarch, as [per the] years of Kung Ho of Chou [and] Shao, yet propriety [and] righteousness [doth] abandon not. Therefore [it is] said [that the] Eastern-Barbarians' [and the] Northern-Barbarians' having monarchs, [is] not as all Hia's having [them] not. Annotation. Pao saith: all Hia, [is] China.
      • 疏: subcommentary

        疏、去聲、 Cantonese: shor3 (post-merger: sor3), Mandarin: shù (Government-regulated 統讀: shū)

      〇正義曰、此及閔元年左氏傳、皆言諸夏。襄四年左傳、魏絳云、諸華必叛。華夏皆謂中國、而謂之華夏者、夏、大也、言有禮儀之大、有文章之華也。 [The] Right Meaning saith: this and [the] Commentary of [Him of] Clan Tso of [the] origin year of Min, all speak of all Hia. [In the] Commentary of Tso of [the] fourth year of Siang, Wei Kiang saith, All Hua [shall] surely rebel. Hua [and] Hia all speak of China, and [the] calling of it Hua‑hia: hia, [meaneth] great, [doth] speak of [the] greatness of having propriety [and] ceremony, [and the] splendour of having literary composition.
    • 《論語集注》 "Analects collected annotations" supports the non-prejudicial reading:
      Source text Target text Notes
      吳氏曰、亡、古無字、通用。程子曰、夷狄且有君長、不如諸夏之僭亂、反無上下之分也。 Wu saith: having-not, [is the] olden character [for] without, used interchangeably. Master Chʻêng saith: [the] Eastern-Barbarians [and the] Northern-Barbarians moreover having monarch [and] leader, [were] not as all Hia's usurpative disorder, [and] contrariwise [were] without dispute [between] superior [and] inferior.
      • 分: dispute; lit. split
      〇尹氏曰、孔子傷時之亂而歎之也。亡非實亡也、雖有之、不能盡其道爾。 Yin saith: Confucius [was] grieved at [the] disorder of [the] time and sighed [upon] it. Having-not [is] not actual having-not; although [all Hia] had it, [they were] unable to exhaust its way.

3.6. Impropriety by unpermitted sacrificial expedition

Source text Target text Notes
季氏旅於泰山。子謂冉有曰、女弗能救與。對曰、不能。 [He of] clan Kee [was] expeditioning [for sacrifice] unto Mount Tʻai. [And the] Master spake unto Rem Yiu, saying, [Art] thou not able to save [him]? [And he] replied, saying, [I am] unable.
  • 冉有: Rem Yiu

    Rem Kʻiu, styled Tzŭ‑yiu, a disciple of Confucius.

  • 救: save

    He of clan Kee did not have the status to make sacrifice unto Mount Tʻai. The commentaries interpret "[Art] thou not able to save [him]" in the sense of Art thou not able to stop him from transgressing.

  • 與、平聲、 Cantonese: yü4, Mandarin: yú

  • 不能: [I am] unable

    Rem Yiu was a subordinate employed by the clan Kee, so he could not stop his superior from transgressing. There is no point to Confucius's question, except to create this dialogue. (Rem Yiu, being a disciple of Confucius, did have to respond to his master, even though the question was rhetorical.)

子曰、嗚呼、曾謂泰山不如林放乎。 [And the] Master saith, Alas; ever spake [we that] Mount Tʻai [is] not as Lim Fang?
  • 嗚呼: alas; lit. boo hoo
  • 林放: Lim Fang

    Lim Fang, who asked a "great question" about rites in 3.4.

3.7. Non-striving of the superior man

Source text Target text Notes
子曰、君子無所爭、必也射乎。揖讓而升、下而飲、其爭也君子。 [The] Master saith, The superior man hath not that of striving; [if he] must, [it is in] archery. [He] riseth chest-saluting [and] yielding, [and] giveth drink going down: his striving [is yet] of the superior man.
  • 射: archery; lit. shooting
  • 飲: giveth drink

    飲、去聲、 Cantonese: yam3, Mandarin: yìn

3.8. Propriety afterward

Source text Target text Notes
子夏問曰、巧笑倩兮、美目盼兮、素以為絢兮、何謂也。 Tzŭ‑hia asked, saying, [Her] clever smile [is] dimply, [her] beautiful eyes clear, the plain to make the variegated: what meaneth [this]?
  • 倩: dimply; or pretty
子曰、繪事後素。曰、禮後乎。 [And the] Master saith, Matters of painting [come] after the plain. [And he] said, Propriety afterward?
  • 後素: [come] after the plain; or [then] afterward the plain

    The two renderings are of course opposite in meaning (way to go, Confucius):

    • In the principal rendering, plainness come first and painting comes after, with Tzŭ‑hia then asking if painting alludes to propriety/rites.
    • In the alternative rendering, painting comes first and plainness come after, with Tzŭ‑hia then asking if plainness alludes to propriety/rites.
  • 禮: propriety; or rites
子曰、起予者商也、始可與言詩已矣。 [And the] Master saith, He that rouseth me [is] Shang; [even him] can [I] begin to speak with of [the Classic of] Poetry.
  • 商: Shang

    The given name of Tzŭ‑hia. The other disciple that Confucius could "begin to speak with of [the] Poetry" is Tzŭ‑kung; see 1.15.

3.9. Olden rites lost

Source text Target text Notes
子曰、夏禮吾能言之、杞不足徵也、殷禮吾能言之、宋不足徵也。 [The] Master saith, [The] rites of [the] Hia [Dynasty] I [am] able to speak of them, [but] Kʻee [is] not sufficient [to] evidence [this]; [the] rites of [the] Yin I [am] able to speak of them, [but] Sung [is] not sufficient [to] evidence [this].
  • 徵: evidence; or complete
文獻不足故也、足則吾能徵之矣。 [Their] texts [and] talented [men] not sufficient [is the] cause: [were they] sufficient then [would] I [be] able to evidence them.

3.10. Confucius's dislike of the contemporaneous Great-Sacrifice

Source text Target text Notes
子曰、禘自既灌而往者、吾不欲觀之矣。 [The] Master saith, [The] Great-Sacrifice from having poured and onward, I wish not to observe it.
  • 禘: [the] Great-Sacrifice

    The commentaries note that Confucius's dislike was of the improper manner in which the Great-Sacrifice was conducted by the heads of the state of Lu. Without this context, it would seem from the text that Confucius just really didn't like the Great-Sacrifice. See also 3.11.

  • 往: onward; lit. gone

3.11. On an explanation of the Great-Sacrifice

Source text Target text Notes
或問禘之說。 Someone asked of [an] explanation of [the] Great-Sacrifice.
子曰、不知也。知其說者之於天下也、其如示諸斯乎。指其掌。 [And the] Master saith, [I] know not. He that knoweth [the] explanation thereof, [his dealing] in [all] under Heaven: it [is] as viewing upon this. [And he] pointed at his palm.
  • 不知也: [I] know not

    As in 3.10, the text alone lacks a lot of context. The commentaries explain that Confucius did actually know the explanation of the Great-Sacrifice, but said otherwise to avoid the taboo of airing criticism of the government of Lu for not doing the Great-Sacrifice properly.

    See 《論語注疏》 "Analects annotations [and] subcommentary" for example:

    Source text Target text Notes
    注。孔曰、答以不知者、為魯諱。 Annotation. Kʻung saith: Answering with [I] know not, [is a] speech-tabooing for [the state of] Lu.
    注。包曰、孔子謂或人、言知禘禮之說者於天下之事、如指示掌中之物、言其易了。 Annotation. Pao saith: Confucius speaketh unto [that] someone, speaking [that] he that knoweth [the] explanation of [the] Great-Sacrificial rites [dealing] in [all] matters under Heaven, [is] as pointing at [and] viewing [an] object amidst the palm; [even he] speaketh of his easily comprehending.
    • 或人: someone; lit. some person
    音義。易、以豉反。 Pronunciations [and] Meanings. Easily, [is read] yee-shih back-[dissected].
    • 反: back-[dissected]

      Short for 反切, "back-dissection"; see Wikipedia.

      This indicates that under 'Pao saith' is read in departing tone (Cantonese: yee6), "easily", rather than entering tone (Cantonese: yik9), "changed". The distinction is lost in modern Mandarin.

    疏。正義曰、此章言諱國惡之禮也。 Subcommentary. [The] Right Meaning saith: this section speaketh of [the] propriety of speech-tabooing [the] nation's evil.
    • 疏: subcommentary

      疏、去聲、 Cantonese: shor3 (post-merger: sor3), Mandarin: shù (Government-regulated 統讀: shū)

    或問禘之說者、或人問孔子禘祭之禮、其說如何。 Someone asked of [an] explanation of [the] Great-Sacrifice, [is] some person asking Confucius of [the] rites of [the] Great Sacrifice, [even] how [the] explanation thereof [is].
    子曰不知也者、孔子答言、不知禘禮之說。答以不知者、為魯諱。諱國惡、禮也。若其說之、當云禘之禮、序昭穆。時魯躋僖公、亂昭穆、說之則彰國之惡、故但言不知也。 [The] Master saith [I] know not, [is the] speech of Confucius's answer, [that he] knoweth not [the] explanation of [the] Great-Sacrificial rites. Answering with [I] know not, [is a] speech-tabooing for [the state of] Lu. Speech-tabooing [the] nation's evil, [is] propriety. If he [were to] explain it, [he] ought to [have] said [that the] rites of [the] Great-Sacrifice, [have] order [by] the Chao [and] the Muk. [At the] time, Lord Tsee-hee of Lu, [did] disorder the Chao [and] the Muk; [to] explain it [would] then evince evil of [the] nation, therefore [he] but spake [that he] knew not.
    • 昭穆: the Chao [and] the Muk

      The generational ordering to be observed for the placement of ancestral tablets in a temple, and by those present at sacrifice.

    知其說者之於天下也、其如示諸斯乎也者、諸、於也、斯、此也。 He that knoweth [the] explanation thereof, [his dealing] in [all] under Heaven, it [is] as viewing upon this: chu, [meaneth] upon; ssŭ, [meaneth] this.
    孔子既答或人以不知禘禮之說、若不更說、恐或人以為己實不知、無以明其諱國惡、且恐後世以為禘祭之禮、聖人不知而致廢絕、更為或人言此也。言知禘禮之說者於天下之事、其如指示於此掌中之物、言其易了也。 Confucius having answered [that] someone, with [I] know not [the] explanation of [the] Great-Sacrificial rites, if [he] explained not further, [he would be] afraid [lest that] someone think [that he] himself actually knew not, [and he] have not [which] to clarify his speech-tabooing of [the] nation's evil; moreover afraid [lest] latter generations think [of the] rites of [the] Great Sacrifice, [that the] sagely men knew [them] not and set [them] forth to abandonment cut off; further [it] being [but a] someone [that] spake this. Speaking [that] he that knoweth [the] explanation of [the] Great-Sacrificial rites, [his dealing] in [all] matters under Heaven, it [is] as pointing at [and] viewing upon [an] object amidst this palm, speaketh of his easily comprehending.
    指其掌者、此句弟子作論語時言也。當時孔子舉一手伸掌、以一手指之、以示或人曰、其如示諸斯乎。弟子等恐人不知示諸斯謂指示何等物、故著此一句、言是時夫子指其掌也。 [And he] pointed at his palm: this phrase [be] words [from] when [the] disciples composed [the] Analects. At [the] time, Confucius raised [the] one hand [and] stretched out [his] palm, [and] with [the] one [other] hand pointed at it, to shew [that] someone, saying, It [is] as viewing upon this. [The] disciples [were] afraid [that] others [might] not know what manner of object [that] viewing upon this speaketh of pointing at [and] viewing; therefore recorded [they] this one phrase, [to] say [that at] this time [the] Master [did] point at his palm.
    • 言: words; lit. speech
(Incomplete; work in progress.)

Cite this page

Conway (2023). "[The] Analects: Chapter 3". <https://yawnoc.github.io/analects/3> Accessed yyyy-mm-dd.